With all the excitement of the AT Hop card implementation on 28th October, it seems the Family Pass has been forgotten about.
Where is the Family Pass?
Sure, the Maxx website is still advertising the $24 daily pass:
Unlimited train travel. Available after 9.00am on weekdays and anytime on the weekends and public holidays. Family consists of 1 adult and up to 5 children or 2 adults and up to 4 children travelling together. (Note: the group must include at least one child aged under 16 without ID, or between 16 and 19 years with a valid Student ID card)
This is the ideal ticket for families to experience public transport on the weekend – a time when there is heaps of spare capacity on most services.
But associated with the AT Hop rollout, the Family Pass is now only available from manned stations – Britomart, New Lynn and Newmarket.
Yes that’s right – you can’t get the ticket from the new Thales vending machines, or on board the train.
This policy discriminates against any family that doesn’t live near the three stations mentioned. For instance a family of 5 wanting to travel from the new Manukau Station to Britomart return will have to pay ($6.80 x 2) + ($4 x 3) = $25.60 x 2 = $51.20 return! The same family of 5 going from Britomart to Manukau return could get the $24 family pass.
Incidentally, Sydney offers the Family Funday Sunday where, for $2.50 per person, your family can enjoy a fun day out with unlimited travel on Sydney’s buses, trains, light rail and ferries every Sunday.
This is where Auckland should be heading too. $24 should cover not only the rail network but buses and ferries. As it stands at the moment, families are charged another $26 to use NZ Bus’ Family Bus About pass.
With all the excitement about the Hop card, it is inexplicable that group passes appear to have been completely overlooked. A simple alternative could be kids travel free on the weekend accompanied by an adult using the Hop card. Presumably AT will have to cope with this scenario for kids under 5, so why not just raise the allowable age of accompanying kids to 16?
Off peak travel really is the low hanging fruit for boosting public transport. I’m not proposing increasing weekend service levels, I’m merely suggesting that it is better to get some revenue to help farebox recovery, rather than no revenue at all from families that don’t live near one of the three stations that issue family passes.
You suspect that Auckland Transport really aren’t serious about providing off-peak public transport services. Ponder that when you are stuck in a traffic jam over the weekend.
Come on Auckland Transport – please sort this out by the time the Santa Parade comes to town.
“Come on Auckland Transport – please sort this out by the time the Santa Parade comes to town.”
I’ll bet they don’t!
AT have responded to this point with:
Promotional / advertised presale of Family Passes will be pushed before these two key family orientated events, and sale of the tickets on the day of the events on platforms is also being planned for.
… The two events being the Santa Parade and Christmas in the Park
Geez guys I am sorry but bit slow here after I have been banging on about for about 6 weeks now. Never mind. At least Council including Mike Lee are aware.
$58 approx for 2 adults and 4 kids from Papakura to Britomart and back again due to Family Pass situation
Ben did you get a response from AT?
I have always been frustrated by how Auckland Transport and ARTA before them treat families and weekend passengers. They don’t seem to understand that the weekend is their great opportunity to attract new customers who don’t normally use PT but may give it a for a family outing.
I think AT’s marketing strategy should be based around highlighting to non-customers that PT is way better than they think or than they remember. Having good weekend service and cheap weekend fares to encourage people to “give it a go” is a critical part of that strategy.
What is Sgl? I assume it is ‘single’ but given the amount of space on the right, putting in the three extra characters would be nice.
Classic Transport bureaucrats at work! I’ve been asked dozens of times to explain to tourists what “DLY” or “VIA STH” and “VIA ONE” mean on the Britomart platform signs. Why do they have to be so vague?
But surely the only people using the train are commuters going to the CBD? ;p
Ha! Karl is right, this is a direct result of the limited conception of PT in general and the RTN network in particular as only having value as a commuter service. Which in turn comes from an over-concentration on traffic congestion as the only transport issue of any importance.
Aren’t we changing away from a commuter only service? Should the fare structures support this? Yes all day running patterns have to wait for the new trains, but there are many other details than can be done now, should be done now, as the new ticketing technology is rolled out.
It does unfortunately suggest that at some important levels the old ways clearly still persist.
And agree that that abbreviation ought to change, that isn’t clear communication.
Another positive externality of getting accompanying under-16s on fo free is that it will get the culture of PT ingrained in them, and seeing that it is not so bad after all.
The whole AT Hop roll out is farcically bad. It would be hard to make it worse, except perhaps if they only sold them at a bus stop in Helensville or something. It’s hard not to cynically see the way it’s all out of sync and mistimed as a deliberate move to increase revenue (by pushing people onto single trip tickets), and, inexplicably, inconvenience passengers for the month of October.
You can only buy the frickin’ things from three physical locations, starting on Monday 22, for crying out loud. What kind of messed up plan is that? Assuming they want to have, you know… 100,000 users, or whatever it is, exactly how much time queuing does that imply for the good people of Auckland? I only routinely find myself anywhere near three counters (the ones at Britomart) where you can buy this thing. If there are 10 sales points across the whole system, then that implies standing in a queue of 10,000 people… more at Britomart. I feel like I need to put a date in my diary to organise buying the thing.
It makes no sense. If I’m wrong about the above information, then their publicity is poor and the staff on the Britomart desk are misinformed (my information is based on what I was told this morning and on what I’ve read on confusing websites). Please correct me if I’m wrong, and please correct their (mis)information campaign if I’m not, or even better GET A CLUE and fix this!
Their latest email update was:
“You can buy your new AT HOP card week commencing 22 October 2012.
Look out for our introductory offer available at Ticket Offices at Britomart, Newmarket and New Lynn as well as from special mobile representatives at all train stations.
On 22 October, visit AT.co.nz to find out when the mobile teams will be at your train station.”
So they can’t even decide until the day which train stations they’re going to! Hopeless!
Argh, another bloody public body wanting to be corporate with a .co.nz address,
I know maxx had a .co.nz address, but surely this is the time to actually highlight that it is a public entity
AT *should* have a .govt.nz address , like the council, or at a minimum a .org.nz address,
sorry about the short rant on one of my pet peeves, I will skulk off now
AT does have a govt web address. The public transport site is deliberately separated from the main site. This blog has a .co.nz web address but is hardly corporate.
It wouldn’t be hard to add Family pass option to the ticket machines, surely?
I agree about needing to make travel cheaper for groups. I propose one free child for every paying adult during off peak hours.
Sounds like a perfect story for Campbell live,
Family of 5 from Newmarket decide to go to Rainbow’s end for a day out, cost of transport $24,
But family from South Auckland heading to the Auckland Museum get smacked $51,
This is a total B@lls up and pre selling / platform sales for “special events” is a total cop out …
Might be worth getting in contact with Campbell Live / Close Up / Fair Go.
Just like dropping the weekly all zones passes when SnapperHop came in. Poor form, impacts on lower socioeconomic groups unfairly. I simply can’t afford to fork out $215 up front for a month of travel.
And then there is the issue that the discovery day pass also needs to be purchased on a bus or a manned train station,I’ve written to AT on this with no response so far…..
Why was the Day Rover Pass dropped?
Rather than a family pass I would support a group discount (of say 10%).
The big problem with a so-called “family” pass are that AT would have to specify what a family was (e.g. 2 parents, 2 children) and price it according to that definition. In reality there’s many different types of families (e.g. 1 parent, 3 children). So rather than tagging a family pass to a certain number of adults and children, I’d suggest AT should look at a more flexible group discount where anyone buying large quantities of tickets (say 4+) gets a 10% discount,
I agree with the general sentiment though; AT should offer a group discount (and yes it should be widely available, rather than just the manned stations).
Since using a HOP card gives about a 10% discount anyway, what’s the incentive?
Anyway, given Cam’s calculation of $24 for the family pass vs $51.20 return cash, discounted at 10% that’s still $46.08, nearly double the price of a family pass.
If the family has a car, driving will likely be cheaper even if parking is chargeable at the destination, giving that one vehicle will transport the whole family.
You’ve mixed a few things up here.
The family pass is currently only being sold by tellers therefore does not qualify for the HOP discount. Anyway, the 10% discount was just pulled out of the air – it could be anything, i.e. whatever size discount is reasonable. And note that the only reason it costs $51 is because AT are not selling it from all stations. I agree with Cam on this point; it should be available from machines and therefore would start out at $26 or whatever.
My point is that calling it a family pass is too narrow, what we’re actually talking about is a group discount.
Ah serves me right for skim reading. Perhaps that would make for a fair replacement, although I see a problem – the group ticket will have to show all fares paid on a single piece of paper which is invalid if split, otherwise you’ll get people buying them up in bulk then hawking them off to commuters and tourists – this is rife on the Paris Metro with its ten-ride carnets.
ALso, the current family pass is for 6 people (minimum 1 adult, maximum 2 adults, all the rest must be children), so the replacement should be price-equitable to a return family trip between, say, Mt Albert and Manukau to emulate a family trip from suburbia to Rainbows End.
Yeah, I can’t quite see what Stu’s problem with the family pass is. Currently family passes on trains and movies and the like are defined as one or two adults with x many children. That’s fairly simple, and of course you don’t actually have to be blood relations, it’s an “adult with several children” pass. The point of it is an adult or two supervising a group of minors, and presumably paying for it all out of one income (or pair of incomes).
Discounts for large groups travelling together is a somewhat different story to adult/s taking a group of children on an outing. I disagree we’re talking about a group discount, we’re talking about a bunch of minors travelling on one adult’s income discount.
The definition of a “family” is simple (albeit vague), but the pricing is definitely not.
Consider pricing an all-zone ticket for 1 adult plus 2 children versus a ticket for 2 adults plus 4 children. With a family pass you have to choose “one price fits all”, which of course it never really does. What actually happens is that the family that consists of 1 adult plus 2 children gets ripped buying the so-called “family” pass, whereas 2 adults plus 4 children get off with a great deal.
Discounts for large groups are both more accurate and more flexible; they embrace what a family pass does plus some. That’s why I’d suggest AT sticks with a general group discount. And I’m not sure why everyone gets so hung up on the family pass – children already get a discount. So we’re talking about a discount on top of a discount, which just seems a little desperate. IMO.
We have to accept that sometimes one adult driving a car with 3 children will be more efficient than them using PT. So I’m not quite so sure why we’re so desperate to get them on PT. But you all seem bat keen on the idea so I’ll leave this post alone now.
Stu, I don’t think anyone is ‘hung-up’ about families, but most do understand that families, in all their myriad forms, are a very real economic unit. Unlike groups. Ever stood waiting to pay at a restaurant while every individual from a group of 20 somethings all pay separately by card compared to one parent settling their table’s whole account. Groups of adults and ‘families’ of adults and kids are very different.
The Herald has picked up on this issue, using the word “discriminatory” in the headline. It doesn’t mention that the well-heeled of the inner suburbs have ready access to the two stations where tickets will be sold, but it does point out that families on Manukau will be paying a lot more than they should.
AT’s response is that a facility to buy the passes will be opened in Manukau. Next winter. Poor show, AT. Very, very poor show. These should be available immediately from the platform vending machines.
Disappointing how they completely did not respond to the suggestion of making family passes available at ticket machines.
I feel an email to Mike Lee coming on….
Something like:
“Aren’t you getting sick of being embarrassed by AT’s stuff ups?”
Never saw that before