Tomorrow is going to be a pretty historic day for the rail network, for probably the first time ever there will be a change to how ticketing is done for trains in Auckland. In anticipation of the roll out of integrated ticketing in at the end of October, on-board ticket sales are being phased out so that regular users can start to get used to to buying their tickets before getting on the train. The ticket machines that started popping up a few months ago will be used to do this although there will be staff on platforms to assist people if they need it. For a few more weeks on-board sales will still be possible which I guess is to ease people into it. 10 trip tickets will also no longer be able to be brought on the trains and can only be purchased from the ticket offices however after Hop goes live they will phased out all together.
With the machines ready to go and reports of some people already using them, I decided to pop down to my local station to have a go at using it and to document it for the blog. The first thing you will notice is that the machines have now been dressed up with various labels to make them easier to use, I think they are quite tidy and not over the top which is good.
As you can see above the screens are active so here is what the initial screen looks like up close. You will notice that you can select the language to be either English or Maori, hopefully in future we might see a few other languages included.
As I don’t have an AT HOP card yet I selected ‘Purchase Ticket(s)’ and was then presented with a screen to select my destination. You can either scroll through the lists by using the arrows on the right or use the keyboard to start typing the name of it. The screen felt really responsive which was good and the stations displayed changed immediately as soon as you pushed a letter. I also like how the unneeded letters are greyed out.
This station selection screen is also where my gripes are though. The first is just from a design point of view, I wonder if it would have been easier to make things a version of the network map which you can select your destination from. Much more of a concern is that you can only select stations on the line you are travelling on. I tried selecting Ellerslie and other southern line stations, all of which are listed in the machine yet it wouldn’t allow it, giving me giving the error screen below. This indicates that passengers transferring lines will need to get off the train at their transfer point (Britomart or Newmarket) and then go and find a machine to purchase another ticket. That is absolutely stupid as even with our current silly fare structure that penalises transfers it would be simple to work out that a transfer will take place and adjust the price accordingly.
After you have successfully selected a station to travel to you are presented with another screen to let you select just how many tickets you want to purchase. While I didn’t try it, it appears that you can select any combination of tickets which is good. I also wonder if the Super gold card tickets will be hidden during the morning peak when they aren’t valid?
After you have selected how many tickets you want it is time to pay, there is a pinpad and slot for Eftpos/Credit cards so I assume it was just turned off for the time being, hopefully it is sorted by tomorrow morning. Having that as a payment option now is great though, especially for those new to the network who may not have cash on them. One thing to note is that the machines will not give out change for more than $20 as the change will all be in coins, if someone does happen to put in a large note with which the change will be more than $20 then the machine will print them a claim receipt. They will need to take that receipt to Britomart to get their refund however the ticket offices at Newmarket and New Lynn will be able to do it at a later date.
Now as I wasn’t actually travelling I didn’t proceed to purchase a ticket however Geoff on the CBT forums did the other day and this is what they look like. The on-board staff clipped the one on the right but they don’t need to as the ticket is actually valid for two hours from the time printed on it.
Overall the machines were pretty simple and easy to use which is great. It is worth point out that apparently the machines out south won’t be operational tomorrow as they require repairs following significant vandalism of them, hopefully AT can find a way to minimise this from happening in the future. It won’t be a good look if people can’t purchase tickets due to some idiot thinking it is a good idea to destroy the machine, they also can’t be cheap to continually replace or repair.
Hopefully in the future when all the bus’ trains and fairies are using at hop cad. They will upgrade the super gold so they can be used for the ticket validations. Because I can see how it would be annoying everytime you want to take a train with your supergold card to have to purchase a free piece of paper? And I think some people will struggle especially people with English not as a first language.
I agree, getting super gold HOP cards is something I have long thought would make a lot of sense. I would actually go further though, the point of super gold is to allow elderly to retain their mobility within their community, once we get new fare zones it would surely make sense to look at limiting that travel to within one or two zones (it it would require legislation changes and probably be bitterly opposed by certain lobby groups).
As of next year, every single student ID andSupergold card issued in Auckalnd should be printed on a HOP card.
On another note, what is with the “train sgl adult”? Surely there is enough room to write the word single properly. That would confuse some people.
Yes I agree – and given that you’re standing on a train station do they really need to say “train”? I would have thought that “single” was more important information to communicate. While some of these machines may eventually be placed in locations where you can buy both bus/train tickets, the harmonisation of bus/train fares should mean that modal distinctions are irrelevant.
“On another note, what is with the “train sgl adult”? Surely there is enough room to write the word single properly.”
Presumably the software can be updated to fix minor usability issues centrally, without needing to physically visit the machine itself? I agree with “single” and think any popup headed “Transaction problem” has to be re-worded.
I personally think it stay day free to go anywhere they are likey just going to give back their pension money anyway.
I would think that it would be a good idea as Nick R says, for the Gold card to be a HOP Card at the same time.
Let me emphasis the main point: NO TEN TRIPS, DAY ROVER, DISCOVERY PASSES NOR FAMILY PASSES WILL BE SOLD ON THE TRAINS TOMORROW!
I wonder how long it will take before someone does ask for a ten trip ticket after I have been handing out the AT flyers everytime I sold a ten trip as well as going blue in the face with my own campaign at my end.
None the less, Newmarket will be a pain because you can not get a single ticket for south to west and vice versa…
There should be a map on the screen for thise unfamiliar with the route (1st time users, tourists, people from other parts of town).
While the machine represents two of our official languages, how about braile?
Additional languages would be good for tourists but how many? (Mandarin, Japanese, German, French sufficient?) And pacific island languages Samoan, Fijian, etc. Where to stop?
Would assume braile would be hard to implement, I don’t know any overseas countries which have managed that??
Head phone jacks were built in, hang on might play around with one machine tomorrow with my ear phones
So AT now expect single fare paying passengers travelling from the west to the south or east, or vice versa, to alight at Newmarket or Britomart; ascend the escalators; purchase a further ticket from either the ticket office or the machine and then descend once more to the platform and wait for up to an hour (in weekends) for a connecting service? This is a joke, but, sadly, a quite typical example of AT failing to consider public transport from a user perspective and is almost guaranteed to ensure that no one will want to travel, let us say spontaneously, across the rail network. Integrated my foot; another AT fail.
Oh come on Christopher that’s hardly fair. Surely you have got the memo from AT that the only people who use the trains are those travelling to Britomart at peak times.
It is a shame this has been overlooked, and surely will be resolved when AT HOP is introduced and you can no longer buy tickets on-board. But this is AT so holding my breath on that one.
This is a technical development that will be resolved in three weeks time.
I’m pretty sure that the posters and pamphlets said that people that have a transfer ticket should still buy on board. I’m guessing for whatever reason the machines are not yet able to do this. So it should be fine eventually…
It should have been “fine” right from service launch, not “fine eventually”. Not having an on-screen network map to choose from like many other countries’ ticket machines have, is not user friendly at all. The first letter-based destination selection option is very old world and not being able to select a destination station on another line is just downright daft. Not having Mandarin, Korean, Hindi, Samoan, Tongan, Cook Island and Niuean language options is bad.
AT have yet again notched up another planning / communications fail.
Not sure on having so many language options, we are a english speaking country and have maori as a secondary language. That is fine, you don’t go over to Spain or Korea or China or Japan and expect them to have everything in English.
Joshua, in Japan, rail ticket machine diaplay options are in Japanese, English, Mandarin and Korean. in Korea, they are in Korean, Japanese, Mandarin and English. In Singapore / Malaysia, they are in English, Bahasa Malay, Mandarin and Tamil. in China, the machines display in Mandarin, English, Korean and Japanese.
These display options (with the exception of Singapore where by law all communcations have to be made in English, Mandarin, Bahasa Malay and Tamil) are not for tourists but to cater for the large numbers of foreign residents in those countries. Auckland ticket machines theefore must have language display options in English, Maori, Cook Island Maori, Mandarin, Korean, Hindi, Samoan, Tongan and Niuean – to cater for the large numbers of immigrants from Asia and the Pacific who have made Auckland their home. Look at fhe display options on a BNZ ATM. They have a wide range of language display options…even in Japanese.
Rob I do think that having all of those languages may be starting to go a bit overboard, out of interest, this is what Stats NZ says about languages spoken in the Auckland Region
Matt L, at least have Mandarin and Korean alongside English and Maori. As you know, there are large numbers of Chinese and Koreans living in Auckland and they are frequent PT users.
The question is not which languages are most spoken by Auckland residents, but what languages are spoken by the most people using transit in Auckland that don’t read English also. Obviously Asian tourists will be disproportionate in terms of transit users who cannot read English, especially those from places that use Chinese ideograms or hangul rather than Roman script. While Samoan might be very common, I would hazard to guess that almost all Samoan speakers can read directions in English, if not speak English fluently. With something like the Malay languages, they also use Roman script and even use English style versions of key words, for example tikit means ticket. Not super hard in that case. In that regard the inclusion of Maori is a little bit of a sop to culture and identity rather than being particularly useful, is there a single person in this country that speaks Maori but not at least basic English also?
If we look at the largest non-English language speaking segment that use Auckland’s rail and bus on a regular basis now and going forward, it is the Chinese – many older mainland Chinese cannot drive so have to use PT to get around. Mandarin thus is a definite for inclusion. Korean also needs to be included as there are a lot of Koreans living in Auckland (3rd largest Asian community after China and India/Pakistan) and in their home country, Koreans use PT all the time especially rail. Now that AKL’s rail service is finally starting to become reasonably useable, more Koreans will use it – if the ticket machines have a Korean language option – that’s how Koreans think. I wouldn’t bother putting Japanese on the menu as there are certainly nowhere near enough Japanese living in Auckland to justify it.
The problem there is once you include one unofficial language why don’t you support the other? We would end up needing to support a huge amount of languages as to not discriminate, so therefore still disagree, remember we live in a PC country, so let’s just support our national languages instead of having a huge amount of screen clutter.
Limit it to buttons for English, Maori, Mandarin and Korean at the bottom of the main screen and there is certainly no ‘clutter’ at all. Even putting in a ‘More’ button at the bottom as the fifth button to display further languages in groups of 3-4 buttons at a time at the bottom of the screen does not produce clutter. Its not about being PC (I hate that word and its useage) its about meeting the needs of customers – there are very large numbers of Chinese and Koreans, living in Auckland and they have a strong culture of PT useage. Chinese already comprise a good percentage of bus users in AKL and they will comprise an important segment of rail users going forward. They need to be catered for and putting a Mandarin language option on the ticket machines is a very efficient way to meet their needs and generate increased rail patronage as a result.
If we are to include other languages, I would tend to put our national languages and then a ‘more’ button. Easy to justify and still simple.
That would be pretty useless Joshua, you’re asking people who need a foreign language to navigate to it though a series of buttons in English! Consider yourself in the equivalent situation overseas. Do you know what the characters for ‘more languages’ looks like in Chinese or Korean script? (And if you could read Chinese or Korean, would you need to change the ticket machine language into English?).
The solution in my opinion is to have a row of flag icons (China, Korea, Samoa etc) along the bottom of the screen next to the English/Maori buttons. You don’t even need to write anything there and you could have a dozen different languages with little clutter.
Right on Nick! Flag buttons – excellent idea. Simple, effective and wont clutter the screen any. Best way to go and means that at the very least, Mandarin and Korean can be quickly added as language display options. The ticket machines really need to have a display option in at least Mandarin. Cannot emphasize how important it is to have this done.
I saw that note about transfer tickets being bought on-board, and thought it was stupid from the start. Why do we need transfer tickets at all on this new system?
I assume it is just a staging thing to tide over until the proper HOP fare structure is phased in next year.
But if you are paying to go from a start point to an end point, transfer tickets are redundant (OR can be indicated on the ticket if really necessary). This would be the case even if HOP wasn’t used.
Why ‘Purchase Ticket(s)’? Why not ‘Purchase Tickets’? The parentheses are unnecessary.
Super excited about these ticket machines. Going to go out of my way to catch the train to uni on Wednesday to give the ticket machine at Mt Albert a go. Can wait to be able to go through the barriers at Britomart/Newmarket and fell like Im in a ‘real’ country using ‘real’ public transport haha.
I know AT has copped alot of criticism, and maybe rightly so but I think we are in for a few very exciting (in my opinion haha) steps in the development of our PT system in the coming days and next month and I cant wait, and would like to thank AT for delivering these things (regardless of the perhaps botched way we have arrived at this point)
One thing is that the gates at Britomart and Newmarket won’t be operational till the integrated ticketing part goes live at the end of October.
You are also right that there are exciting times ahead. In 5 years we won’t recognise the PT system we have today as we will have integrated ticketing and fares, a completely new bus network and electric trains operating on all lines.
oh yea I know the ticket gates wont be operational till October (sorry my wording isnt very clear sometimes) but still, absolutely cannot wait!
Unless your buying a single adult or accessible there are no tertiary tickets sorry
Also, keep in mind that these machines must be able to accommodation changes and so after the initial few weeks of these machines AT might take on board any feedback and issues people might have and adjust them accordingly to keep improving the service they are proving us with…after all, isnt that how any govt agency/business should operate?….well in theory any way =p.
This seems kinda complex imo… :\
Using the rail network over in Brisbane/The Gold Coast was so easy! Top up, tag onto station, tag off when you leave.
End of October you will be able to do this.
These machines look much better than the ones I used in Brisbane …
Why not “Buy ticket”? Plain language is not that hard.
Sorry, that was meant to be right under this comment: http://transportblog.co.nz/2012/09/09/train-ticketing-changes-tomorrow/#comment-46769
The language used on the machines should be plain, but it shouldn’t be pidgin. ‘Buy ticket’ is as ugly as ‘Purchase ticket(s)’.
Funnily enough no Hop machine at New Lynn and, of course, the ticket office is closed. So don’t even bother thinking about travelling anywhere on the rail network from this major interchange station if you intend using one ride tickets. Oh dear, yet another AT fail.
This is just phase one and onboard ticket sales for single journeys are still available, so it’s not quite the disaster you make it out to be.
As part of this, onboard sales are, for now, still the only way to purchase a single-journey transfer fare. The FAQ mentions this. One would assume that the capability is coming to the ticketing machines at the same time AT HOP goes live on trains in October.
I don’t see it in the screenshots, but can you purchase return tickets?
Didn’t see any option for it, I guess it would be a bit hard as the ticket is only valid for two hours from the time printed on it so you would have to be able to specify the exact time you wanted to use it to return.
The thing about travelling from the Western to the Southern line isn’t unique to those ticketing machines. I once tried to pay for a six-stage journey between those lines with a six-trip ticket, and so asked for a transfer ticket; however, I was told by the clippie that transfer tickets weren’t allowed in that instance. Bizarre.
AT Policy – you can not transfer with a single or ten trip ticket between Southern and Western Lines. Monthly and Day Passes are the exception.
Call it right, wrong or whatever that is just the policy set in place currently
un-understandable
What?? So I can’t buy a single journey fare from Mt Albert to Ellerslie??
No, you will have to get off at Newmarket and get another ticket.
That’s just plain daft! No other commuter rail system I’ve travelled on does that. Thats a real barrier to useage. Better get that changed pronto and implemented for all single journey fares (and not just for HOP) across the AKL network. The network really does need RF single journey tickets and gates installed at Henderson, New Lynn, Mt Albert, Ellerslie, Papatoetoe, Manukau, Sylvia Lark, Panmure and Glen Innes.
Matt L is incorrect, transfer tickets will still be available on board for the time being: “Please Note: If you get a transfer ticket, please continue buying this on-board.”
Presumably transfer tickets from the machines will come soon enough, I can’t see why they would be so hard to print.
To not be able to buy at a ticket machine, a tsingle journey use ticket that allows you to go from one side of the network to the other, is very, very odd. This setup of transfer tickets is also very odd. Needs to done away with and something far simpler put in place for single journey use tickets. Users shouldnt have to know about ‘transfer ticketing’ at all.
That’s incredible. Surely it would be simple to fix the ticketing and remove, what I see as a barrier, to PT use?
Personally I don’t see any problem with Super Gold card users having to obtain a ticket per trip.
Surely a small price to pay for a free ride. This is already the practice on Fullers ferries and I haven’t noticed any complaints. Also if a Super Gold HOP card was issued this could be easily used by anyone without any real scrutiny.
The other point is that exactly who would receive a Super Gold Hop card? It would have to everyone in the country. I don’t think that this should be a cost on AT.
More to the point how is a transaction done on the ticket machines with a Super Gold card?
You chose buy tickets and the chose where you what to go and then chose Super Gold Card the press buy then it print out a bit of paper.
you would probably have to show gold card while getting ticket checked, which kind of makes getting ticket pointless apart from a stats point of view
How does the machine know that the ticket is issued to a Super Gold Card? Does the card holder have to insert their card or something similar?
The machine doesn’t, once the new system is up and running there will be random checks and that is where it would be picked up. It would be the same as not having a ticket.
I also wonder if the Super gold card tickets will be hidden during the morning peak when they aren’t valid given that tickets state that they are valid for 2 hours from purchase , I suspect that they will available be for sale during the morning peak…..
Who designed that!!!! So if you have a bank card you have to pay and there is a mechanism for that but if you can lay your hands on a Gold Card you can travel free…..Wait a minute you don’t even need a Gold card…. and if you get stopped you will have to get out at the next station.
WHAT PLANET ARE THOSE WHO DESIGNED THIS SYSTEM ON?
I expect the rules are changing very soon, there will most likely be a large fine for fare invasion.
From what I know, fines will only be used for “extreme” cases (i.e. people with a history of fare evasion), and people will be let off with a warning in most cases, but the option will be there.
One would certainly hope the rules will change. As for soon……I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Last I heard AT are trying to change the rules at the moment, but it requires legal work. Not sure if entirely true though so if anyone has anymore info would be good.
Yes it requires a law change and the MOT/NZTA are working through the issues related to it, it is expected to happen sometime next year.
Well it didn’t start well, the ticket machines in Manurewa were out of order this morning…
Failing to Plan = Planning to Fail.
West went live today, southern line will go live over the next couple of weeks, they are staging the roll out. I suspect might be because they have to physically update every machine which takes time.
Down South was delayed due to significant vandalism of the machines from what I have heard.
Thats a shame, wonder if anybody is doing anything about it, most if not all stations have CTV now.
When will a fine system be introduced for fare evasion? Need a minimum fine say of $200 to make people take notice. Seems like this system is going to have revenue leaking like a sieve, with paper based tickets rather than magnetic strips such as used by TFL will still require quite a few staff at gated stations just to check the paper ones. Also why is there not a SuperGold Hop card?
It’s been looked into, but fines would be saved for repeat offenders and all other let off with a warning.
Super Gold cards should really be photo cards, which I don’t believe they are currently.
Was wondering this morning whether one ticket machine will be enough at Newmarket.
If I’ve read the phamphlet correctly, I should be able to buy a four stage ticket, and then have it clipped as a transfer when I switch between the south and west lines when travelling from ellerslie to avondale.
The machine wont let you thus far. It will “book” you from Ellersile to Newmarket at the Ellersile Station, then you must get a new ticket at Newmarket to carry onto Avondale…
I think I have mentioned that above somewhere
As I mentioned above, this is ridiculous, when ‘transfer’ or start & finish stations (implying a transfer) could be printed on the ticket. If anyone from AT is here, please respond with some further info about this, and whether it will be fixed….
Further up the comment stream Sharon Hunter (AT Communications Manager) suggests that this will be fixed up in the next few weeks.
Now we wait…
Thanks, I missed that. However, they obviously knew it would be happening because the transition info says ‘purchase transfer tickets onboard’, and they should have removed the problem from the start by allowing ticket machines to print tickets covering more than one train line.
I know this is of topic but what happened to maxx!? http://www.maxx.co.nz
You can also access the site via at.co.nz but it just redirects to maxx for the moment.
I see the day rover passes are being phased out in October (assuming you can still find somewhere to buy one until then). All well and good trumpeting about the shiny bling that will give me 10% off of the cash fares with my new (at a cost of $10) Hop card, but how is a 10% discount on cash fares approaching $30 compared to a $12 day rover going to make me choose to take the train when I go from Henderson to visit friends in Papakura ? Will there be a daily cap on the Hop card so that if you only travel by train everything after the equivalent cost of a day rover is free, and if you combine modes then everything after the cost of a discovery pass is free ?
I guess having a SuperGold card makes me stupid, but how do I actually “buy” the free ticket at a kiosk? Do I have to put my card into the machine? Does it just trust me? Or do I have to “buy” tickets in advance from one of the manned booths whose staff can inspect the card? Google has not been able to find these answers for me.
Paul,
Try this link: http://www.athop.co.nz/fares/concessions/Pages/supergold-consession.aspx
They do manage to spell “concession” correctly on the body of the page!