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	<title>Comments on: Grafton Bridge proving lucractive</title>
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	<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/</link>
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		<title>By: 23</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-15083</link>
		<dc:creator>23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 21:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-15083</guid>
		<description>Anyone that can&#039;t read signs like this probably have missed many danger warning signs, speed limit signs and should not be driving!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone that can&#8217;t read signs like this probably have missed many danger warning signs, speed limit signs and should not be driving!</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-15081</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 11:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-15081</guid>
		<description>&quot;However, the ‘B’ light has to be white – according to the rule of commonality. There are other reasons also…&quot; I was modeling this off bus advance lights. They are green, why the link between bus lanes and white?

Relating to your comment improvements, It is now a long time after the bridge has been open to cars. Several signage upgrades have already occurred. Initially the traditional bus lanes signs were installed (along with giant electronic temporary signs). It was determined this was insufficient so the council added the no turn /no entry signs (after gaining approval from the NZTA). More recently a overhead gantry with red crosses on it has also been added. Don&#039;t get the idea that the council has ignored the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;However, the ‘B’ light has to be white – according to the rule of commonality. There are other reasons also…&#8221; I was modeling this off bus advance lights. They are green, why the link between bus lanes and white?</p>
<p>Relating to your comment improvements, It is now a long time after the bridge has been open to cars. Several signage upgrades have already occurred. Initially the traditional bus lanes signs were installed (along with giant electronic temporary signs). It was determined this was insufficient so the council added the no turn /no entry signs (after gaining approval from the NZTA). More recently a overhead gantry with red crosses on it has also been added. Don&#8217;t get the idea that the council has ignored the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen M</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-15076</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-15076</guid>
		<description>I’ve spent more time, going way out of my way to look at this intersection and have found something new each time.  Did you know there was a very faded white BUS LANE marking on the road at the northern entrance to the bridge that can only be read going up Symonds Street?  It appears as spilt paint from last century to car drivers approaching from ‘K’ Road and becomes hidden under the car’s bonnet when one drives towards the bridge.   An interesting thing can happen when one drives towards, or concentrates on, the bridge – those arched side barriers, like the walls of a tunnel, focus attention to the end of the bridge, like to the light at the end of the tunnel.  Little wonder people coming from ‘K’ Road see little else than the green light.  I have yet to look for this from the Park Road end… 

I can confirm that most of the Grafton Bridge bus lane warnings are very different from those relating to bus lanes up and down Symonds Street.  The only exception is the one on the bridge itself – hidden by a tree and out of the ‘down the tunnel’ view.  The council has something serious to answer for.  Apart from hiding the most applicable and commonly understood illustrated sign, it has broken the ‘Human Factors’ rule regarding commonality of signage and a few others in the process…

The idea of ‘B’ lights is very good.  If there is anything that we all seem to focus on – it is traffic lights.  The idea has much merit and I know it would have attracted my attention to something being different from the expected.  However, the ‘B’ light has to be white – according to the rule of commonality.  There are other reasons also…

Having had time to think about the further implementation of improvements, I can say that it can be done and I hope that a requested meeting with the Auckland City Council will happen and that a way to resolve the issue will be reached.  It is election year and council has to do something to appease angered rate payers.  Keep your fingers crossed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve spent more time, going way out of my way to look at this intersection and have found something new each time.  Did you know there was a very faded white BUS LANE marking on the road at the northern entrance to the bridge that can only be read going up Symonds Street?  It appears as spilt paint from last century to car drivers approaching from ‘K’ Road and becomes hidden under the car’s bonnet when one drives towards the bridge.   An interesting thing can happen when one drives towards, or concentrates on, the bridge – those arched side barriers, like the walls of a tunnel, focus attention to the end of the bridge, like to the light at the end of the tunnel.  Little wonder people coming from ‘K’ Road see little else than the green light.  I have yet to look for this from the Park Road end… </p>
<p>I can confirm that most of the Grafton Bridge bus lane warnings are very different from those relating to bus lanes up and down Symonds Street.  The only exception is the one on the bridge itself – hidden by a tree and out of the ‘down the tunnel’ view.  The council has something serious to answer for.  Apart from hiding the most applicable and commonly understood illustrated sign, it has broken the ‘Human Factors’ rule regarding commonality of signage and a few others in the process…</p>
<p>The idea of ‘B’ lights is very good.  If there is anything that we all seem to focus on – it is traffic lights.  The idea has much merit and I know it would have attracted my attention to something being different from the expected.  However, the ‘B’ light has to be white – according to the rule of commonality.  There are other reasons also…</p>
<p>Having had time to think about the further implementation of improvements, I can say that it can be done and I hope that a requested meeting with the Auckland City Council will happen and that a way to resolve the issue will be reached.  It is election year and council has to do something to appease angered rate payers.  Keep your fingers crossed.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-15025</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-15025</guid>
		<description>Specific exemption had to be sort from the NZTA relating to the no left turn/no right turn/no entry signs. I think that the lettering size is legal but do not know of the specific statures sorry. My personal preference relating to signage would be to have a signal integrated into the traffic light, such as a green B (for bikes/buses) which operates instead of the standard green during the bridges hours of operation. I haven&#039;t yet worked out how to integrate the letter B to an arrow signal.

I think this would add clarity while minimizing signage clutter.

Relating to the council I understand there was a warning period which has long since expired. Given how long the Grafton Bridge has a been a buslane and how much damage has been done to the councils reputation already they are unlikely to back down on that. When we have the new supercity council enforcement policy will need to be unified across Auckland. Some changes might be made at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Specific exemption had to be sort from the NZTA relating to the no left turn/no right turn/no entry signs. I think that the lettering size is legal but do not know of the specific statures sorry. My personal preference relating to signage would be to have a signal integrated into the traffic light, such as a green B (for bikes/buses) which operates instead of the standard green during the bridges hours of operation. I haven&#8217;t yet worked out how to integrate the letter B to an arrow signal.</p>
<p>I think this would add clarity while minimizing signage clutter.</p>
<p>Relating to the council I understand there was a warning period which has long since expired. Given how long the Grafton Bridge has a been a buslane and how much damage has been done to the councils reputation already they are unlikely to back down on that. When we have the new supercity council enforcement policy will need to be unified across Auckland. Some changes might be made at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen M</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-15024</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-15024</guid>
		<description>I put four spelling mistakes into my previous text to illustrate the point that a person doesn&#039;t always find what they are not looking for.  The brain can subconsciously correct according to its training.  Likewise if someone has known the bridge only as being public access, then they may not be looking for anything contrary to their beliefs.   This is all the more applicable to us who are getting older.  So please everyone, don’t be too quick to pass judgement.  Despite what our legal obligations may or may not be, there are messages here revealing that all is not right and something needs to be done.

Let’s all get behind this idea - the council should be paying attention to what we are saying and since there are still instances of bridge incursion by people, for whatever reason, the council should be more lenient and give a warning before fining.

There is another angle to the legality of the signage.  Can anyone add constructively to this forum by looking through the NZTA regulations and confirm that the ‘NO ENTRY’ sign should not be placed on the traffic light pole and that wording on the exception signs is smaller than regulation and of a non standard layout.  The signage related to the Grafton Bridge bus lane appears to be different to other bus lanes and it would be nice to have confirmation of that also.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I put four spelling mistakes into my previous text to illustrate the point that a person doesn&#8217;t always find what they are not looking for.  The brain can subconsciously correct according to its training.  Likewise if someone has known the bridge only as being public access, then they may not be looking for anything contrary to their beliefs.   This is all the more applicable to us who are getting older.  So please everyone, don’t be too quick to pass judgement.  Despite what our legal obligations may or may not be, there are messages here revealing that all is not right and something needs to be done.</p>
<p>Let’s all get behind this idea &#8211; the council should be paying attention to what we are saying and since there are still instances of bridge incursion by people, for whatever reason, the council should be more lenient and give a warning before fining.</p>
<p>There is another angle to the legality of the signage.  Can anyone add constructively to this forum by looking through the NZTA regulations and confirm that the ‘NO ENTRY’ sign should not be placed on the traffic light pole and that wording on the exception signs is smaller than regulation and of a non standard layout.  The signage related to the Grafton Bridge bus lane appears to be different to other bus lanes and it would be nice to have confirmation of that also.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-14988</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-14988</guid>
		<description>I disagree. The signage a no left turn/right turn/entry sign depending on direction approached, and then the smaller text underneath describes the conditions when it apply. If there is not enough time for you to read the text you should go with the illustration. I go over the bridge most days on my bike and there is really a lot of signs. 

Regarding finding something your not looking for I was the understanding it is a legal requirement to look for signs.

Yes one warning per registration would have massively reduced the number of people feeling hard done by such as your self. This would have been a politically smart move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree. The signage a no left turn/right turn/entry sign depending on direction approached, and then the smaller text underneath describes the conditions when it apply. If there is not enough time for you to read the text you should go with the illustration. I go over the bridge most days on my bike and there is really a lot of signs. </p>
<p>Regarding finding something your not looking for I was the understanding it is a legal requirement to look for signs.</p>
<p>Yes one warning per registration would have massively reduced the number of people feeling hard done by such as your self. This would have been a politically smart move.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-14985</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-14985</guid>
		<description>They are there on a gantry, but somewhat unclear, and are permanently on cross, even after 7. (in my experience anyway)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are there on a gantry, but somewhat unclear, and are permanently on cross, even after 7. (in my experience anyway)</p>
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		<title>By: Allen M</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-14983</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-14983</guid>
		<description>I also crossed the Gradton Bridge from &#039;K&#039; Raod without realising that the once public road had been closed to cars.  What a horrible surprise to receive the council&#039;s letter demanding name and details of the driver involved.  Try to see the Senior Officer - no way.  Write a letter - get an infringement notice and fine.  Hey, we are human and make innocent mistakes sometimes.  A warning letter would be better received.

There has been equally unfair criticism by other bloggers here of real people, living real lives and trying to do the right thing.  People will be concentrating on the actual traffic and be working off old knowledge.  There was a lot more going on with me on that day and I will only say &quot;Real people will find themselves travelling onto the bridge because the mass of indications are so confusing and the written signage too verbose - the insignificant sized lettering can&#039;t be read when in a hurry or looking out for the red-light-runners&quot;.  Little wonder that people will assign a different meaning to anything they see as &#039;the burr&#039; they just passed by.  

Comparing the &#039;K&#039; Road and Grafton Bridge signs to those of some other Auckland bus lanes (i.e. Dominion Raod) you see a totally different story - clear illustrations. NZTA legal sizing and wording.

To those who believe signage is adequate - try finding something you are not looking for.  It just doesn&#039;t happen every time, if at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also crossed the Gradton Bridge from &#8216;K&#8217; Raod without realising that the once public road had been closed to cars.  What a horrible surprise to receive the council&#8217;s letter demanding name and details of the driver involved.  Try to see the Senior Officer &#8211; no way.  Write a letter &#8211; get an infringement notice and fine.  Hey, we are human and make innocent mistakes sometimes.  A warning letter would be better received.</p>
<p>There has been equally unfair criticism by other bloggers here of real people, living real lives and trying to do the right thing.  People will be concentrating on the actual traffic and be working off old knowledge.  There was a lot more going on with me on that day and I will only say &#8220;Real people will find themselves travelling onto the bridge because the mass of indications are so confusing and the written signage too verbose &#8211; the insignificant sized lettering can&#8217;t be read when in a hurry or looking out for the red-light-runners&#8221;.  Little wonder that people will assign a different meaning to anything they see as &#8216;the burr&#8217; they just passed by.  </p>
<p>Comparing the &#8216;K&#8217; Road and Grafton Bridge signs to those of some other Auckland bus lanes (i.e. Dominion Raod) you see a totally different story &#8211; clear illustrations. NZTA legal sizing and wording.</p>
<p>To those who believe signage is adequate &#8211; try finding something you are not looking for.  It just doesn&#8217;t happen every time, if at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt L</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-11554</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 00:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-11554</guid>
		<description>I noticed on Sunday that there was an extra set of lights above the normal street lights. They looked like a normal street light but were on their side. They weren&#039;t turned on at the time so I couldn&#039;t see what they indicated but I wonder if this is to show what lanes were open.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed on Sunday that there was an extra set of lights above the normal street lights. They looked like a normal street light but were on their side. They weren&#8217;t turned on at the time so I couldn&#8217;t see what they indicated but I wonder if this is to show what lanes were open.</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/02/21/grafton-bridge-proving-lucractive/#comment-11553</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 23:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=3113#comment-11553</guid>
		<description>I agree with Darren&#039;s idea also. I went over the Bridge without realising I wasn&#039;t allowed. There were two of us in the car at the time and neither of us recall seeing the signage. I have written to the Council 3 times so far since my infringement and received no response at all. The signs clearly need to be a LOT more obvious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Darren&#8217;s idea also. I went over the Bridge without realising I wasn&#8217;t allowed. There were two of us in the car at the time and neither of us recall seeing the signage. I have written to the Council 3 times so far since my infringement and received no response at all. The signs clearly need to be a LOT more obvious.</p>
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