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	<title>Comments on: CBD Rail Tunnel &#8211; how many stations?</title>
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		<title>By: Nick R</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-6689</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-6689</guid>
		<description>Pukekohe to Britomart is $9.10, or $8.15 if you buy in books of ten. You also have the option of a $10 day pass that is valid after 9am during the week and all weekend, if that suits of course. 

Train travel isn&#039;t super cheap, but it isn&#039;t particularly bad either. Certainly if you already own a car and there are several people going at the same time then the marginal cost of gas divided between you is going to be way cheaper than a train fare each. 

However if you consider the other running and ownership costs of cars then it can work out cheaper.... especially if using the train to get to work lets you get rid of one car. While just about everyone will want access to a car there are plenty of housholds that have a second (or third or fourth) car that basically exists just to get one person to work and back. If a houshold can get rid of an extra car then they can save $3,000 to $5,000 a year in gas, maintenance, rego and insurance, plus they get back whatever the car sells for and of course they don&#039;t need to replace it in the future. In the right circumstances the savings are several times what a train or bus pass would cost each year.

Another thing to consider is how you value your time. When driving a car all you can do is basically listen to the radio or perhaps make a handsfree phone call, even if you are a passenger it is hard to do much more than sit there. On the train however it is much easier to read, write, make phone calls, read the papers or use a laptop.

It&#039;s hard to put a dollar value on commuter time, but for a business person or student who can get work done during their commute that could add an hour or two of productivity each day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pukekohe to Britomart is $9.10, or $8.15 if you buy in books of ten. You also have the option of a $10 day pass that is valid after 9am during the week and all weekend, if that suits of course. </p>
<p>Train travel isn&#8217;t super cheap, but it isn&#8217;t particularly bad either. Certainly if you already own a car and there are several people going at the same time then the marginal cost of gas divided between you is going to be way cheaper than a train fare each. </p>
<p>However if you consider the other running and ownership costs of cars then it can work out cheaper&#8230;. especially if using the train to get to work lets you get rid of one car. While just about everyone will want access to a car there are plenty of housholds that have a second (or third or fourth) car that basically exists just to get one person to work and back. If a houshold can get rid of an extra car then they can save $3,000 to $5,000 a year in gas, maintenance, rego and insurance, plus they get back whatever the car sells for and of course they don&#8217;t need to replace it in the future. In the right circumstances the savings are several times what a train or bus pass would cost each year.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is how you value your time. When driving a car all you can do is basically listen to the radio or perhaps make a handsfree phone call, even if you are a passenger it is hard to do much more than sit there. On the train however it is much easier to read, write, make phone calls, read the papers or use a laptop.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to put a dollar value on commuter time, but for a business person or student who can get work done during their commute that could add an hour or two of productivity each day.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-6687</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-6687</guid>
		<description>the problem in auckland is not the amount of stations its the crazy price we are expected to pay..  to train from pukekohe to britomat station costs $10 EACH WAY. for two of us thats $40 A DAY.   considering it costs $8 of petrol to drive the car, its just not financially sensible to use the train.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the problem in auckland is not the amount of stations its the crazy price we are expected to pay..  to train from pukekohe to britomat station costs $10 EACH WAY. for two of us thats $40 A DAY.   considering it costs $8 of petrol to drive the car, its just not financially sensible to use the train.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick R</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-3679</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-3679</guid>
		<description>Presumably the location of the ramps would need to be twice as wide as current to fit in the two main lines plus the two exit ramps, but apart from those two stretches of a few hundred metres the rest would be underground (or at least built over again once they were built).

Really, if they were planning on a new underground eden terrace station, then the western approach tunnel could start just after Kingsland, and the eastern one just after Grafton. I wonder if the grade benefits of spliting the junction into a big underground &#039;Y&#039; would outweight the extra costs.

The simcity fan in me says raze the lot, build a massive underground junction, the re-develop the whole area intensively ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presumably the location of the ramps would need to be twice as wide as current to fit in the two main lines plus the two exit ramps, but apart from those two stretches of a few hundred metres the rest would be underground (or at least built over again once they were built).</p>
<p>Really, if they were planning on a new underground eden terrace station, then the western approach tunnel could start just after Kingsland, and the eastern one just after Grafton. I wonder if the grade benefits of spliting the junction into a big underground &#8216;Y&#8217; would outweight the extra costs.</p>
<p>The simcity fan in me says raze the lot, build a massive underground junction, the re-develop the whole area intensively <img src='http://transportblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-3678</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-3678</guid>
		<description>That makes good sense Nick. How much would the rail corridor need to be widened by I wonder?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That makes good sense Nick. How much would the rail corridor need to be widened by I wonder?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick R</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-3667</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-3667</guid>
		<description>Instead of a trench why not just leave that part of the western line as it is, and start the tunnel ramps further along the line each way. 

You could have a single track ramp either side of the mainline at the two ends, this would result in a flying junction underneath Eden terrace somewhere, rather than a flat junction where the existing station is.

See an example from Melbourne, these two ramps down to/from the city loop start a good kilometre back from the MCG proper:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&amp;hl=en&amp;msa=0&amp;ll=-37.821574,144.982254&amp;spn=0.001074,0.002784&amp;t=k&amp;z=19&amp;msid=101291069583876254503.0004768f811186193c95d

However some kind of trench on the eastern approach would allow for and underpass of Normanby Rd, possibly the same to the west with  George St also if they were to lower the track back that far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of a trench why not just leave that part of the western line as it is, and start the tunnel ramps further along the line each way. </p>
<p>You could have a single track ramp either side of the mainline at the two ends, this would result in a flying junction underneath Eden terrace somewhere, rather than a flat junction where the existing station is.</p>
<p>See an example from Melbourne, these two ramps down to/from the city loop start a good kilometre back from the MCG proper:</p>
<p><a href="http://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&amp;hl=en&amp;msa=0&amp;ll=-37.821574,144.982254&amp;spn=0.001074,0.002784&amp;t=k&amp;z=19&amp;msid=101291069583876254503.0004768f811186193c95d" rel="nofollow">http://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&amp;hl=en&amp;msa=0&amp;ll=-37.821574,144.982254&amp;spn=0.001074,0.002784&amp;t=k&amp;z=19&amp;msid=101291069583876254503.0004768f811186193c95d</a></p>
<p>However some kind of trench on the eastern approach would allow for and underpass of Normanby Rd, possibly the same to the west with  George St also if they were to lower the track back that far.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-3651</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-3651</guid>
		<description>A trench makes a lot of sense - especially as I think that Mt Eden station is basically at the very peak of the Western Line&#039;s elevation. Slicing across the top of that &quot;vertical curve&quot; would reduce the gradient for all trains on the Western Line too, and if it was covered up could create some good development sites in the Eden Terrace area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A trench makes a lot of sense &#8211; especially as I think that Mt Eden station is basically at the very peak of the Western Line&#8217;s elevation. Slicing across the top of that &#8220;vertical curve&#8221; would reduce the gradient for all trains on the Western Line too, and if it was covered up could create some good development sites in the Eden Terrace area.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick R</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-3645</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 05:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-3645</guid>
		<description>IIRC there was the possibility of having a trench basically from Dominion Rd to Mt Eden Rd. However if I remember right all this allowed was the grade to be eased from 3.5% to 3%, which is the difference between needing custom built trains and the absolute maximum that normal trains could handle day to day.

I hope the electrification tender specifies a high level of power and traction regardless, Auckland is one hilly place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IIRC there was the possibility of having a trench basically from Dominion Rd to Mt Eden Rd. However if I remember right all this allowed was the grade to be eased from 3.5% to 3%, which is the difference between needing custom built trains and the absolute maximum that normal trains could handle day to day.</p>
<p>I hope the electrification tender specifies a high level of power and traction regardless, Auckland is one hilly place.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-3638</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-3638</guid>
		<description>The previous study into this project highlighted that as one way to reduce the tunnel&#039;s grade, so I am sure it is being looked into. I just hope the new study does not come back with a cost of $2.5 billion or something like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The previous study into this project highlighted that as one way to reduce the tunnel&#8217;s grade, so I am sure it is being looked into. I just hope the new study does not come back with a cost of $2.5 billion or something like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Harris</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-3635</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-3635</guid>
		<description>That is a great idea, why didn&#039;t I think of that and more importantly have the feasibility study engineers..? An e-mail to them maybe..?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a great idea, why didn&#8217;t I think of that and more importantly have the feasibility study engineers..? An e-mail to them maybe..?</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/10/20/cbd-rail-tunnel-how-many-stations/#comment-3633</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transportblog.co.nz/?p=2044#comment-3633</guid>
		<description>I would certainly lower the Western Line a bit through Mt Eden so that the tunnel&#039;s grade is eased. A shorter version of the trench being built at New Lynn would do the trick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would certainly lower the Western Line a bit through Mt Eden so that the tunnel&#8217;s grade is eased. A shorter version of the trench being built at New Lynn would do the trick.</p>
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